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A long, long time ago, like a year or something like that, I promised [info]audrawilliams that I would write a post about feminism and agreeableness, because this is a concept which as a feminist she finds occasionally problematic[1] and then I never got to it, because nothing I wanted to say about it would come out right.

And then there was a discussion on [info]james_nicoll's lj about crowds and moving through them, and getting walked into and pushed and about how as a woman I have had to unlearn a lot of behaviour around getting out of the way of men, because, frankly, men are often inclined to subconsciously expect that non-men things will move for them[2], and someone asked me how to do that without being a jerk -- without being, basically, disagreeable -- and I didn't really have a good sort of step-by-step answer, but I did what I could (I said, what you do is you become conscious of your space and what's in it and how you manage it, and then you can decide how you want to manage it) and then forgot about it for awhile.

But I was standing at the bus stop on Rideau Street today, holding some parcels and waiting for the bus and sort of negotiating my spot in the crowd, as you do, and thinking idly about "what does agreeableness have to do with feminism?" and less idly about "how do you keep your space in a crowd without being a jerk?" and realised that these are basically aspects of the same question.

So, here is how the sidewalk thing works.

First, you notice that people seem to push you out of the way a lot, or walk into you, or, in extreme cases, put their hands on you and move you out of the way. (A young man did this to me in the food court today. Unfortunately for the beauty of the teachable moment, I have both a high startle reflex and a real and deep dislike of being grasped by the upper arms, especially from behind, so in fact I let out a piercing scream and he backed up very rapidly. This may discourage him from doing it to someone else in the near future, but it's hardly elegant. C'est la vie.)

Next, you notice that you have certain conditioned reflexes, yourself, which allow this behaviour to pass unchallenged: a trick of stepping aside whenever someone is headed straight at you. A few well-practiced evasive manoeuvrers. A certain tendency to avoid eye contact or other actions that may draw you to the attention of gentlemen who are about to saunter into your personal space. The ability to fold your neither short nor skinny self into one-half of a seat on public transit to accommodate the skinny guy beside you whose knees are a solid three feet apart. A complete and utter unfamiliarity with the actual feel of an airplane armrest against your elbow.

So you stop. You just stop. You make eye contact. You figure out where you're going on the sidewalk and you just go there. You sit down in the middle of the bus seat. You start saying, possibly in a small and overly ladylike way at first, things like "excuse me, but you're crowding me." You get to know your own space. You get to own it. You start to use it. It feels good.

But when you become aware of your space and how you're using it, you will begin to notice something else: there are people getting out of YOUR way. There are people whose space YOU are not respecting. People who your programmed reflexes automatically interpret as less entitled than you are, just as other people's programmed reflexes do to you. People whose needs, considered objectively, are often considerably greater than yours, because they are very small, or very old, or somewhat physically or mentally fragile, or greatly burdened, or somewhat lost, or simply because their space has been systematically disrespected by a large number of people for a very long time, for one reason or another, and their dignity has been somewhat tattered by this experience, and having their psychic space invaded bruises them the way that having yours invaded bruised you.

And that's when you really start making conscious choices about your space, and about how you're going to manage it. That's when "your space" actually becomes yours; when you fire all of your spinal reflexes from their management position and start running it yourself, because you've learned to respect it enough to respect other people's legitimate claims on it, and to consciously practice good management of the conflicts therein.

Somewhere in there, you may even find that you have acquired a bit of relaxed goodwill about the whole process. Someone looks you straight in the eye and heads straight for your left elbow, and you find yourself thinking that you could just leave said appendage there, maybe even angle it a bit more towards his ribcage and "teach him a lesson", and then you remember that you're not terribly well qualified to teach that particular lesson, yourself, and you cut him a bit of slack and shift a little, because, sure, he's being a bit of a jerk, but you're a jerk sometimes yourself.

You don't jerk back into your old habits and cringe out of the way. You don't drop your eyes, or step off the curb. But you let the man by. And sometimes, when you do that, he shifts over a bit, too, just enough that you don't actually collide. Sometimes you even get a little flicker of acknowledgement: "Err. Oops. Sorry. Thanks." Sometimes it doesn't work that way, of course. But sometimes it does.

There's a temptation, of course, to want to hurry it up, to go straight to the final stage – the nice satisfying one where you're all mellow and rational, and, yes, agreeable, because you have Risen Above your crap – but that trick never works. Garbage doesn't go away because you decide it's ugly and shove it under something and ignore it. It just sits there, getting stinkier and stinkier while you spend yourself broke on air-freshener, until one day there's a nasty brown oozing stream coming from somewhere, and you can't even necessarily remember where, but you have to deal with it if you're going to keep living in that house. In the meantime, it's gotten a lot ickier.

You can't do a good job of managing what you haven't yet decided to take charge of. You cannot honestly share or sacrifice any part of what you haven't yet learned to regard as yours to control and dispense.

Contrariwise, there's the temptation, once you're not only in touch with your anger but actually curled up around it, all warm and cozy, to just stay there and bask. I mean, hey. You're entitled. Every single one of us who's made it to adulthood alive is probably, if their case were considered fairly, entitled to be right royally pissed off every day for the rest of their life about their pile of garbage, and there's always someone you can dump that garbage on, someone who can't do anything about it, someone who (you tell yourself) may not even really notice your contribution to all the garbage that's been dumped on their lawn.

Unfortunately, that trick never works either: if someone's been dumping psychic trash on your lawn, moving it to your neighbour's lawn – along with a bit of your own garbage – doesn't actually diminish your problems; you think it does, for a bit, but basically it doubles them. Because now you have an upset neighbour looking to move some garbage, and the neighbourhood is still covered in garbage. (See [info]zingerella's excellent This Crap Is Not My Crap)

Recycling and composting – my metaphors do tend to get away with me – takes longer than just flinging it back and forth, and it involves a certain amount of heavy lifting, but when you're done there's actually going to be less garbage.

So that is what feminism, reclaiming (and then redistributing) the sidewalks, and agreeableness have to do with each other, and I hope [info]audrawilliams considers it worth the wait.

[1] Actually we were talking about an entry she'd written about Al-Anon and how one of the leaflets she had picked up there said this:

6. JUST FOR TODAY I will be agreeable. I will look as well as I can, dress becomingly, keep my voice low, be courteous, criticize not one bit. I won't find fault with anything, nor try to improve or regulate anybody but myself. and when I say she found it problematic what I mean is that her instinctive and very healthy reaction was "Fuck That Shit" and when I read that just the way it is my basic reaction is Fuck That Shit as well, but nevertheless.

[2] If you wish to argue at this point that I am being terribly sexist, let me save you some time: you may yet prove to have a point. Nevertheless, it is a thing I have noticed, and continue to notice, so you're fairly unlikely to change my mind, or even get me to argue with you, at this time. If you don't do this, you don't do this. Carry on. "Quite a number of men", if you prefer to substitute that phrase, do. Further, I shall not go.
 
 
 
 
 
 
It's very difficult for me to grasp that the solution to unthoughtfulness is thoughtfulness, because I would really prefer to repay in kind, but in my better moments, when I can hold such a fuzzy sentiment without shame, I am persuaded that only kindness can overcome unkindness.

Although certain people, I can't be kind to, so I just try not to be unkind.
Hmm... I guess what I'm saying is more, if a person can't CHOOSE their reactions, they're still helpless, whether their reflex is placation or whether it's aggression. And when someone is helpless they know it, deep down. Cornered rats are dangerous, but they're still cornered. And they bite the nearest thing, not the most dangerous one.

So, thoughtfulness in that sense: with thought. Choosing the action based on the desired result.

Sometimes – usually – the right action, even the loving one, is to be hard as hell and flat-out refuse to accept the garbage. Always preserving the option of making an exception from a place of strength, yes -- possibly it was a mistake to include that example, or maybe I worded it poorly.

It's accepting it and then passing it on that is pretty much never going to be right.

(Which is all a very long winded way of saying that I think that the solution to thoughtlessness directed at you is PARTLY dealing with the offense, but it's ALSO cultivating a lot of thoughtfulness in your OWN dealings with others. Managing thoughtfulness to the actual offender is sort of one of those extra-credit deals that one can SOMETIMES rise to.)

Edited at 2008-05-07 02:30 (UTC)
Recycling and composting – my metaphors do tend to get away with me – takes longer than just flinging it back and forth...

Maybe it's the hormones tunneling all Swiss cheese-like into my brain, but how are you suggesting one 'compost'? Is it when you relent on the guy on the airplane (or on the street)? I'm not arguing the point: I'm having (Lord help me) reading comprehension issues.

Additionally, just to point myself out as an (apparent) oddity, I think, because my mother is tall and assertive, not to mention the way she and her sister dominated their own much physically bigger brothers, I've never really felt physically intimidated by men[1]. And then I lived in NYC for five years, and found out that, if you're not physically confident there, you will never find your luggage or eat another hot pretzel again. And that your head will quite simply explode on the subway after a Yankees game.

But then, I'm weird. And you knew that.

[1]. Yes, I know how lucky I am. Yes, I know that other women have good reason to.

how are you suggesting one 'compost'?

That IS where the metaphor gets a bit strained, yeah. Composting is basically the process of turning garbage into soil, yeah? And soil you can use. Soil is good for growing things in.

So composting is, in this case, whatever one's own personal method is of dealing with one's damage and transforming it into one's "interesting past".
I haven't regularly walked through crowds in recent years, but IIRC I didn't do *any* of the things you describe. I walked in NYC (and in Philly) like, well, a New Yorker: not "agreeable", but not expecting anyone to get out of my way, either. Vigilant, no eye contact, aware of other people but more as moveable obstacles than anything else -- and really really fast.

My husband calls it "combat walking" and it drives him *insane* when we're in NYC -- he swears he'll stop on corners and stare at the tall buildings with his mouth open if I do it when I'm with the family. But if I'm alone I still slip into it -- walking "agreeably" in NYC is like driving 55 in the left-hand lane on the Interstate. This is probably why people from out-of-town think New Yorkers are rude.
Well, there's a large dose of metaphor there[1], but as far as the literal – you're the native, but I found New Yorkers quite agreeable wrt pedestrianism, because what I mean by agreeable is not necessarily self-sacrificing, but just more dedicated to fast and efficient traffic flow for all than to standing on one's own particular perceived rights.

New Yorkers move very fast, because they are mostly experienced and frequent walkers, but they don't, that I've noticed, trample people underfoot. A couple of times when I was there I slid out of the traffic flow in the way that apparently signals "lost person in NYC" and had been set right before I was sure I'd gone wrong.

[1] ETA: in fact, it's mostly metaphor. Thinking about my particular walking patterns as derived from having spent most of my life in three major Canadian cities was what crystalised it for me, but if regional differences make it unhelpful to you, by all means discard it wholesale.

Edited at 2008-05-07 02:31 (UTC)
I do like reading your essays.

Glad to hear it; I enjoy writing them! (Except the transitions.)
This is very interesting. Thanks for posting it.
I live to serve!
Excellent points here. I agree.

Re the leaflet:
6. JUST FOR TODAY I will be agreeable. I will look as well as I can, dress becomingly, keep my voice low, be courteous, criticize not one bit. I won't find fault with anything, nor try to improve or regulate anybody but myself.
and when I say she found it problematic what I mean is that her instinctive and very healthy reaction was "Fuck That Shit" and when I read that just the way it is my basic reaction is Fuck That Shit as well, but nevertheless.


This really gives me the creeps, because I recognize the source. It's partially from the description of Cordelia from somewhere in King Lear, and, back until about 40 years ago, it was used all the time to train girls in how to be lady-like -- don't shout, don't be assertive, don't stand up for yourself. It brings out my inner Betty Friedan or Bella Abzug or Molly Ivins.

I have no problem with a suggestion to be agreeable and avoiding finding fault with other people, but this is far beyond that.
Yeah, the phrasing is pretty much past redemption.

Somebody pointed out in the comments to the entry that at its basic level what it's saying is reasonably sound: as they say in AA, Don't Take Anybody's Inventory (of faults) But Your Own, Stop Trying To Fix The World, Don't Toss Your Garbage Around (by treating the world the way you may have learned to treat the Alcoholic), Look After Yourself, Not Everyone Else, things like that.

All good advice, in itself, especially for someone who has been living with, possibly has grown up with, an alcoholic, and VERY useful for shocking someone out of all the habits you can pick up living like that, that are necessary to you then but become destructive later, but filtered through such an incredibly toxic gender screen as to be at best useless and more likely damaging when presented in that form.
A certain tendency to avoid eye contact or other actions that may draw you to the attention of gentlemen who are about to saunter into your personal space. The ability to fold your neither short nor skinny self into one-half of a seat on public transit to accommodate the skinny guy beside you whose knees are a solid three feet apart. A complete and utter unfamiliarity with the actual feel of an airplane armrest against your elbow.

This is where my brain underwent subtotal collapse.

See, I'm tall, and was raised by a woman who Didn't Take Shit From Lesser Beings, so I have a tendency to just go where I'm going and not worry about getting out of people's way. But as an "actually fat" person, I am overcome with the feeling that it is my moral and social responsibility to take up as little space as possible on buses, airplanes, etc. (Note, this is not possible, and leads to everyone involved being uncomfortable. Win.) But then, I also hate when strangers touch me, and I don't like talking to, well, people, so I do try to avoid eye contact and will flinch, if necessary, to get the other person off me omg.

Oh my god I don't know if I'm being a feminist anymore or not!
*hugs you a lot a lot a lot*

You're a fabulous feminist. I post these things in the hopes that they will serve as tools or at least toys along the road for other feminists, not to call anyone out.

We all have these different areas that we've started to get a grip on, and we come together and we share, yes?
Sexist? Nah, that is the plain truth.

Body language and relaxed good will. Very good points.

And if you must accidentally put a heavy solid object in the path of some jerk's balls, at least take care to do it to someone who deserves it. That is my goal, as a transit operator, instruct people appropriately, on a sliding scale tuned to permanent learning on the most obnoxious end, and gentle amusing memories on the bewildered tourist end.

I don't even aspire to be good all the time...my head would explode.
Oh, and I enjoy walking in New York...everyone knows what they are doing and how to do it.
Thanks for the observations, and the suggestions.

I'm a man and I can remember the exact moment when I became conscious of my long-presumed ownership of personal space. It involved airline armrests, as a matter of fact. I was squeezed into the middle seat, and I found myself in command of my right armrest (a woman sat to my right), but not so much my left (an older, larger man had claimed it first). I realized that, if I and the woman our places reversed, she would probably have access to zero armrests. And I thought, well that's just stupid.

Ever since then I have diligently tried to yield the right of way to others, regardless of sex. Sometimes this unintentionally comes across as chivalrous, and I don't know how the average feminist feels about that these days[1]. But I confess I do enjoy the looks of surprise I sometimes receive when I fail to perform my culturally prescribed function and, say, pass through a doorway first.

[1] If there is such a thing as the average feminist. Which there isn't.
This non-average feminist regards chivalry as kind of vexed, depending on the whys and hows and whens, but my general feeling is this:

If a man presumes to do or decide for me what I can and will do and decide for myself, no amount of appealing to "chivalry" is going to save him from my just wrath.

If a man, especially an older man, feels that he'd prefer to sacrifice his comfort to give way to a lady, rather than go back on his own standards of courtesy or sacrifice his dignity to admit that his body can no longer perform the acts his reflexes demand, I will damned well let him give me his seat.

Even when he's so tottery that it means I have to either pretend I always meant to get off at the next stop or glare at some nice young man near me until he gets the Hell up.

If I hold a door for a man because he's carrying stuff or I got there first or both, I expect him to damn well go through it, not stand there making a bloody Maypole dance of the matter. If a man holds one for me, I try to exhibit the same level of courtesy, assuming he didn't nearly break my nose racing past me and wrestling me for it.

And so forth. Small courtesies are pleasant. Smothering is annoying.

All that said, if someone's bleeding and you're the guy with the band-aid, will you PLEASE just go ahead and claim the right-of-way, you know? A blend of principle and expedience is usually better than a straight dose of either. :)
Very interesting and (appears to be) accurate commentary. I personally tend to prefer the zen-like flowing through crowds. While this sounds horrible to say, I find that it helps to treat everyone involved as an object (myself included) rather then a person in crowds. It means that I can be disconnected with the ego for a short while and simply optimize my own movements with those of the crowd.

At least, that is my personal opinion/experience. YMMV.
This is true, as long as your model is loose enough to allow for treating them as fragile and valuable objects, equally valuable but not equally fragile.

But its also easier when one is a) able bodied enough to allow for this sort of responsiveness, and b)one is seen and treated by most of the crowd one is navigating as a person.

IOW, this method works rather less well for, say, smallish older slow-moving women, who tend to become socially invisible to a degree that almost has to be experienced to be believed. I walk ahead of my mother in crowds these days because if I don't people try to walk through her.
I feel like somehow I've never learned the feminine way of negotiating crowds. My sister and I try to emulate the ladies of Chinatown, for whom people are to be moved out of the way in as efficient a manner as possible that you may get where you're going through a certain nonlinear calculus. This often relies on a social contract that everyone is merely trying to get somewhere through the same method and will do what is necessary but not cruel. I am courteous but assertive almost everywhere but the subway, where I can be downright aggressive in maintaining my space - no more than a reasonable share, of course, but often at the expense of people whose feet might be in worse shape.
The Chinatown method usually involves a lot more close contact with strangers than most Westerners are used to, btw. We were discussing this and my Counterpart suggested the wielding of knives, which we deemed counter-productive, because objects who can move themselves out of the way are better than unmoving or angry ones.
Everything about this post resonates with me. I live in New York City and I work in a male-dominated office in Manhattan -- in a building that is not only always extremely crowded with its tenants but also frequented by a large number of tourists (who have their own entitlement issues, namely stemming from the fact that the majority of them -- the majority of a certain kind of American tourist, I should say -- view themselves as "guests" in our fair city and believe that we, as "hosts," should treat them with a certain amount of deference ... ignoring the part where this is my office building, dammit, and you're blocking the line to the elevator). I'm certainly going to spend a lot of time walking down the sidewalk or trying to get around at work, turning this post over in my head. Thank you for sparking those thoughts.
My own personal hell is the crowded bus.

I can't stand up on a bus because I have bad joints and I will fall when it lurches, as they all do in SF. Yet 20 year old men jump in front of me to get to seats, and when I am sitting in the disabled section I get stared at, because I am not over 60 and in many minds the fact that I am "fat" means whatever is wrong with me, if anything hahahah, must be my fault. And yet it is not to a frail old lady's advantage if I am the one to get up and let her sit down. Because if I fall, I may despite my best efforts fall ON her, and as damaging as this will be to me, it will be worse for her. Yet I end up doing it because I am afraid the 20 year old male sitting across from me sekritly has AIDS or worse arthritis than me, even though I know chances are good he's just something of a jerk.
One of the most interesting things I was told about horse training was that instead of hitting or yelling or otherwise acting like a primate trying to tell the horse he was bad, all you have to do is make him move his feet.
Dominant horses make other horses move. Submissive horses move.

Your post made me think of that.
I am a regular sized young woman (5'4", 180 lbs.), and I confess to a tendency to physically move some people out of my way. These people are teenagers and large men, the people who ignore me when I say "Excuse me." I will say "Excuse me" quite loudly and clearly one or two times. If the person still does not move out of my way, I will take his (95% of the time it's a guy) elbow and move him out of my way as I say "Excuse me" again. I have never thought of this as rude or pushy, but I know some people might see it that way. Really I'm just trying to get where I'm going on time without having to resort to crazy contortions to get around someone who refuses to move when asked politely.
First of all let me say, that I really love your posts, the made me think and look up words (English is my second foreign language) and that is a very good thing. Especially your posts about feminism, because that's a topic I mostly think about in the past - I study history - and kind of lost touch with the modern kind of it.

I didn't know that agreeableness is really a word and second I'm not all that agreeable (is that the right word?). When somebody moves into my space without my permission he/she/it often gets my elbow.

men are often inclined to subconsciously expect that non-men things will move for them
Really? I'm more used to the other thing, I'm the women, they get out of my way, because that's the polite thing for a man to do. But I fear that's not the way a real feminist should think?
The sidewalk thing made me think how how I help the kiddo navigate. Often, he is very clueless about Personal Space and will ask everyone what their name is, tell them what his name is, etc. I have tried to tell him that sometimes people are just too busy to stop and say hello and that a wave will suffice. He still takes it as a personal affront if they ignore him, but I think he's figuring it out.
Things to digest.

I think this is, mostly, how I go about moving through life. But I'm a man. A slightly built, somewhat self-effacing man (in terms of random social conflict), but a man nonetheless.

So I get some wiggle-room. I lose my armrests a lot (and I can't recall ever trying to take both, one seems fair enough, but that means, oddly, that the person in the middle; should they be pushy, can often force the way to getting both.), but I refuse; generally, to give them both both up.

I don't know what it is about me which makes people get out of my way, but they do.

I'll have to think about this the next time I'm moving in a semi-crowded street. Then I'll have the centipede's dilemma and be run down.

TK
Excellent stuff. Reminds me of Haden-Elgin's "How to disagree with out being disagreeable"
Good essay.

A few years back, I read a set of interviews with transsexuals in University Review, including one with the U of Victoria's FTM Dean of Graduate Studies. He mentioned sidewalks. He hadn't noticed the way many women automatically swerve out of the paths of men until they were swerving for him. Not because he was doing anything differently (that he knew of); his gender presentation was doing all the work for him! I didn't really change my own habits after reading that, but gosh, it suddenly made me conscious of them, and start noticing what else was happening near me.

I think I'm an aberration of a Canadian; I walk fast, and I'm really good at crowd weaving. People use their gazes to telegraph their planned routes. I find people of all sizes (I'm 5'6" and slim) often -- not exactly *yield* to me, but follow my lead ("I'll veer to my right and you veer to yours") just because I'm quicker to telegraph than they are, and who needs a sidewalk dance? I also mostly stick to the right side of the pavement, which is intuitive for this part of the world, anyway.

One thing I'm hyper-conscious of is making space for folks with canes, etc. I *will* snarl at the oblivious ass who comes too close to clipping somebody who's mobility-impaired. Speaking of invisibility.
I think that if you feel "male" enough, you can get a lot of people to treat you as a male, not by doing anything specific, but by truly *being* male on some weird mental level, and acting accordingly. Take the male privilege, not intentionally but as a matter of course. A peculiar sort of gender dysphoria, if you will. People just give way automatically, without either of you having to think about it.

I rarely do it intentionally, but sometimes it gets so real for me, then breaks down so fast, that I become completely disoriented. Like Wile E Coyote chasing Roadrunner off a cliff, feet spinning as if he's still on solid ground, then suddenly he realizes he's not, and he plummets to the ground.
Good stuff here. Actually it would be pretty easy to make your footnote [2] statistically valid - all you'd need is a grad student, a tape measure, and a bus pass (or plane ticket, but bus passes are cheaper). And then you send said grad student out to measure the approximate space people take up on the bus, from their farthest left extension to their farthest right, noting the (apparent) gender of each person.

Notes
1. Transvestites and transgender people wouldn't even change the data, because part of learning to pass is learning body language including space usage for the sex you want to pass as. And I think being culturally male or female is more pertinent here than a genetic assay.
2. If you want to regress out for size, you'd also need to measure actual width of each person, at hips or shoulders (whichever is wider). But you need a lot more permission for that and you're going to have much more impact on their normal behavior if you get that intimate.
3. All you'd find out, I'm quite sure, is what we all know empirically: men sprawl more. (I was going to say, men feel entitled to sprawl more, but I think that guessing their feeling is an unwarranted assumption. All we know is that they do.) But you'd have a study to point at if anyone complained.
I'm here from [info]dichroic, and I wanted to say thank you. My current (and, we hope, temporary) disability is completely invisible to other pedestrians: I have vertigo. I need someone else's arm to make it down a sidewalk, much less anywhere more complicated than that, and when people start dumping their trash, my yard gets a disproportionate amount, because I am neither able to move out of the way quickly nor able to assert my own space well nor able to cope smoothly with being jostled and bumped. So having people move past assertiveness into courteous and observant assertiveness is important to me.
Hello! I'm here from [info]oursin and really enjoyed your post. In fact, I enjoy the way you write in this post and else-post so much that I'm going to friend you! Hope that's okay :)

On this subject, one thing that annoys me greatly is the runner/walker dichotomy. Where you are walking on a public pathway (like the Stanley Park seawall, or along the Rideau canal) and runners automatically assume superiority. They run down the middle of the path and you are forced to fling yourself out of the way. I have taken to holding my ground, assuming that my ground is a decent right half of the pathway. I notice them somewhat nonplussed, having to move over into the left "lane."
Having done a lot of running, I know why this is. Running has more energy. One has to look further upstream, and changes in direction are more effort, and pose more risk.

The edges of the path are where the crap collects (real crap, not metaphoric). When I'm really running I can look for people, or look for stones, patches of leaves, etc. Yes, I have to look for both, but one is going to get precedence. If the path is crowded, people have to take precedence, which means I'll be toward the center, because that is safer for me, affords more options, and; should I fall the odds are I'll hit someone, so that's a factor too.

Running takes more space, just as one needs more following room when one is driving more quickly.

TK
(Hi!)

I posted this morning about the revolution that is truly not caring how I appear to strangers on the street (after reading Jessica Valenti's "Full Frontal Feminism", and I really like your discussion about body language as it ties into gender...

This morning I was on the subway next to a woman in the wall seat, who had sort of angled herself so she had space between her hips and the wall, but her knees were right up against it, if you can envision that. At first I was mildly annoyed because it meant I had to be more wedged against the woman who eventually sat down in the fraction of seat between me and the next person. After a few stops Wallwoman seemed to recognize she was making the space tighter than necessary, and readjusted, and that's when I thought "You know what, good for her for marking out her space and saying "This is where I'm sitting, screw y'all." I think you're absolutely right that we have to go through all those stages of "garbage management" before coming to an informed way of thinking about our personal space and attitude towards those who share it with us whether we want them or not.

Re: the Al-anon pamphlet...as someone who has spent a fair amount of time in AA, I know there is a lot of problematically dated and gendered language that often impedes acceptance of elements of the programs that are helpful. As other commentors have decoded, what that paragraph is really trying to say is "Keep your side of the street clean"... when AA and Al-anon were founded in the 1930s/1950s it was initially for 99 white, middle/upper-class men, 1 woman, and their families/friends.

Members are sensitive about revising the language because it's so hard to undertake a task like that by committee. Someone trying to de-gender-ify or update (in the eyes of other members) might be steamrolling over the fundamenals...

There are other recovery step and support groups that have been founded specifically for women (and women of color) that address the cultural/social/communicational differences in women's response to addiction/recovery for just those reasons ("Happy Hours: Women and Alcoholism" chronicled many of them).

Wow .. this got long.. Mostly just wanted to say your take was v. interesting! Thanks!