Recent Entries Friends Archive User Info Tags The Scriptorium -- Rum, Sodomy and the Slash by Marna, Skud, Diane and Black Hound.
 
 
 
 
 
 
or, 14 [various people have pointed out reasons I ought to have included, so now it's 18 19 20 and counting] Reasons to be polite and decent to other people in online fandom, none of which have anything whatsoever to do with BNFs, Niceness, or Censorship.


1) They have previously been kind to you.

2) They have never been anything but kind, or at least pleasant, to you.

3) They are in a position to be kind to you in the future.

4) They are in a position to make you very, very sorry you ever opened your mouth. Or they will be in the future. Nobody's power base -- or lack therof -- is forever.

5) Among your audience there is probably at least one person whose good opinion you value, or who is in a position to do you either good or harm, who knows and likes the person you are about to be vile to.

6) They are very new, and therefore don't know all the rules and nuances yet.

7) They have been around forever, and probably understand things you don't about the rules and nuances.

8) They are clearly considerably less intelligent than you are, and you have too much pride to shoot fish in a barrel.

9) They are clearly considerably more intelligent than you are, and you have too much sense to invite a slapdown you'll still remember in painful detail when you are 90.

10) Appearances online can be deceiving. The fact of someone being very new to fandom, or just very young, or alternately much older and not terribly tech-aware, does not actually guarantee that they are not, for example, one of the world's leading authorities in the field you are discussing. This can lead to, once they have mastered the, for example, lj learning curve, and can express themselves clearly, a really really unpleasant burning sensation as your entire body turns flaming red with shame.

11) You'll do something equally stupid or in fact stupider sometime, and when that day comes your chances of getting out of there with your dignity intact will be much higher if half of fandom isn't quietly gunning for you.

12) You have done something that stupid, and only by the grace of God and the forebearance of the people around at the time did you avoid public tar-and-feathers. It is, however, not safe to assume that they've all forgotten, or that they won't bring it up if you give them a good reason to.

13) Something tragic or traumatic will probably happen to you one day, and that will be a bad time to discover that you've established a reputation as a person who doesn't deserve or appreciate sympathy, kindness or tact.

14) One of the many ways in which fandom is not like high school is that fandom is full of extremely smart people. We are not short of clever around here. The bar for "So smart you will automatically be loved and admired, even if you behave like a wild squirrel brought indoors" is set much, much higher than you think it is, and you are probably in no danger of concussing yourself on it.

15) The nastier you are, the better your chances of carelessly hitting someone in an extremely sensitive spot. Aside from being vile, this is extremely dangerous; you have a soft, tender underbelly too, and you don't want to hand anyone a reason to go hunting for it.

16) If your motive for nastiness is that you are terribly, terribly annoyed by stupidity, you may want to keep in mind that intelligent and meaningful conversations rarely break out in the middle of vicious slapfights.

17) Fandom functions almost entirely on reputation, and it has the collective memory of an elephant. The evil you do today will still be following you around in twenty years.

18) Showing off in public is, admittedly, The Fannish Way, but if your talent for nastiness is your most impressive and frequently displayed characteristic you're probably not actually going to enjoy the company of the friends and admirers that gets you.

19) There is a very good chance that you are later going to encounter them in person, or in a different context online, and realise that this is a person you'd very much have liked to know, if you hadn't stupidly poisoned the well at the start.

20) Emotional hangovers are no fun. What seemed like such a clever little rant at 2 am looks very different when you wake up the next day with your adrenalin exhausted, realise that you were actually rather more general in your scope and venemous in your self-expression than the situation really warranted, stagger over to your computer, and see that you have 40 new comments, each and every one of which you suddenly dread reading.
 
 
 
 
 
 
And an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope? (Or: 13 reasons?)

Love the list. :) Being kind to other people is almost always worth the effort.
It's true, even if only on the 'you catch more flies...' theory.
Fandom sounds like my worst nightmare! I'm way too neurotic. Rules! Grudges! Slapdowns (slapsdown?)! Blearugh!
I've been in fandom for three years without any grudges or slapdowns, and every social group has rules (or else mere anarchy would be loosed upon the internets!). It's not as bad as this debate makes it seem. :)
This

We are not short of clever around here. The bar for "So smart you will automatically be loved and admired, even if you behave like a wild squirrel brought indoors" is set much, much higher than you think it is, and you are probably in no danger of concussing yourself on it.

just cries OUT to be in [info]metaquotes!

Marna may I? :)
For you, Susan me dear, anything.

15. Also? Most people are carrying around a secret sorrow, as the pundit said (which pundit?) and if you write kindly or at least peacefully, you lessen the chance you'll cause more suffering.

Here from [info]metaquotes and thanks.
Or that you'll hit them hard enough that they'll be motivated to figure out how locate and stab YOUR tender little underbelly, yeah.

I mean, there are lots of moral reasons; this is more the list of "reasons intended to appeal to people who have no moral qualms about being nasty". For sadly, there's a lot of it about...
Okay, okay, I admit that this list embodies lots of things I want to be like and think like and do, and generally agree with.


but...but... aren't there some people ya just gotta smack?
I wandered over from metaquotes.

You can always smack more. It's incredibly difficult to unsmack someone.
Here through [info]metaquotes.

Very useful list. Everybody screws up from time to time, but if you just keep this in your head then nobody gets hurt, yeah? :)

Added to memories.
Pretty much, yeah. And when people DO get hurt, there's always The Retort Courteous and The Apology Direct.

Maybe it's just that coming right out and apologising without caveats is so bloody rare these days, but I find it has almost magical powers to improve a situation.

*applauds* As I said in the [info]metaquotes thread, this should be compulsory reading for everyone in every fandom. With quizzes and all.

Just one addition, because I see this too often:
10a) You have done something equally stupid or in fact stupider once, and rest assured, there are people out there who still remember it and will call you on it. And even if that doesn't happen, being a shining example of "there's no prude like a reformed whore" doesn't mean you stand on a higher moral ground.
Oh Lord, that one was meant to be in there. Yes. And just because people let you slide at the time doesn't mean that they've forgotten or won't bring it up if you give them a good enough reason to.

*edits post*
I adore this list, every lovely word. Marvelous, marvelous. And I laughed out loud at the "wild squirrel brought indoors" image. Best description of some fangirls that I've ever seen! Brilliant!
Actually, IME fangirls tend more towards the minklike. Squirrels is more fanboys. But there are lots of exceptions in both directions.
You are a wise, wise woman.
Yes. That.
I like the list. Indeed, shouldn't most of those rules and reasons should apply to people either in or out of fandom?

Well, yes, but one must start somewhere/...
If the West Wind blows, your face will freeze that way!

Even if there is no material punishment for having a heart like a shrivelled walnut, well...you still end up with a heart like a shrivelled walnut.
Perfection.

Ye Gods, someone needs to post this on every message board on the interwebs.

And some folk should have it vigourously stapled to their foreheads.
Amen to that, my sister, my sister. Lessons hard learned for some. Lessons learned by fire and being thrown in the deep end for others. Perfect. Let's hope these pearls of wisdom make it 'round the intRRwebs and that they are well heeded.

*applauds you and doffs tricorne in salute, then flourishes with a low bow*

*generally... loves*
Platonically, I admit. But very fondly.

I also like theodicy's rule 15.

6a. Someone you whale on may turn out to be a Clueless Internet Newb because he's been too busy offline becoming a Deeply Respected Expert in the Field. He may be too much of a gentleman to beat the snot out of you at that point, but others certainly will. And it will turn out that yes, there WAS information in his original message that should have cued you in that you were dealing with nothing-to-prove modesty rather than timid-newbie.

TBF, pleading statue of limitations.
You haven't exactly said, but letting me come invade your life on short notice did sort of give me a hint. :)

And right back at you, equally platonically and equally fondly.
And number 14 is the truest of all; people attract the people they deserve most of the time.

*applause*

Well done.
*loves on you*

Sorry, I missed you last night. I just couldn't quite manage to stay up long enough. Phone call again maybe? Or will you be on tonight? I'll be home about 8:30-9 my time.
*love* *love* *love*

Thus once again proving that "enlightened self-interest" is a lot like being genteel.

I don't know whether to steal it or make bumper stickers out of it, or what. But yeah, the squirrel thing. We've had to explain that to some of our group from time to time.
Thus once again proving that "enlightened self-interest" is a lot like being genteel.

Yep. There seems to be a certain amount of contempt these days for appeals to the better nature (and in fairness, there's enough emotional blackmail in the online world that I do understand why people are suspicious of those), so I thought I'd stick to the concrete advantages of behaving well, for there are many.

There are many things I love about this list, but I had just taken a mouthful of tea when I hit the bit about behaving like a wild squirrel brought indoors, and I was seriously in danger of killing myself with laughter for a minute there.
Honestly compels me to note that I do not think that phrase is original with me; I think I came across it in a book called The Frog Factor, by Serena Grey and promptly stole it, because it is so wonderfully vivid.
Beautiful cat! *applause*
Heh. Wasn't meant to be catty; I'm in no danger of concussion myself!

But God knows it was a deep and salutary shock to ME when I got out in the world and realised that I could no longer automatically count on being The Smartest Kid In The Room, and there were some, how you say, areas of my personality and education I was going to have to address, and soon, if I wanted to Stay Up Late And Hang Out With The (Other, oh shock oh horror!) Grown Ups.
This is an utterly brilliant summation!
Excellent list; while I'm not active in online fandom, it certainly applies in quite a few other contexts!
A beautifully amusing summation. *vbg*
I forgot to mention - apropos of JF's recent troubles, that reason number 19 is:

19) They may be people you regard as foul-smelling dorks of the worst dye. But. Ever worked out where the sort of script-kiddies who launch killer DOS attacks come from? Or why?
I sort of thought I'd covered that in 15, but yes. Though 15 is more about the danger of pushing a basically GOOD person that far, which is also substantial.

I'll add that sometimes one has to take the trolls on ("to live -- is to battle with trolls") on anyway, but even then, limiting oneself to fighting cleanly and decently VASTLY increases the chances that when the situation goes pear-shaped there will be decent people willing to stand up for you.
Fandom functions almost entirely on reputation, and it has the collective memory of an elephant.

So, true.

<3 to this! Thank you!